The cops are angry that Trump pardoned the Jan. 6 rioters as he promised he would.
Now Hispanic groups are angry that Trump is moving ahead with deportations without consulting them as he always intended not to.
What is next? Will women who voted for Trump be angry as they are reduced to second-class status as Trump has always done?
I mean, did everyone think Trump was kidding, that he was really NOT going to govern as a fascist?
Trump is to the U.S. what BREXIT was to the U.K.
@Dave_Goldsmith @midacre
Oh there was an article ages ago about how disappointed the Muslim community was regarding Trump’s about face on them immediately after the election. Truly incredible.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/muslims-who-voted-trump-upset-by-his-pro-israel-cabinet-picks-2024-11-15/
It's truly unfathomable to me that all of these groups who Trump clearly and repeatedly insulted and abused still somehow decided to vote for their chief enemy.
@Dave_Goldsmith @midacre
This election finally convinced me that most people are deeply uniformed and vote on pure emotion of the moment. It’s a devastating realization.
@midacre @Dave_Goldsmith @lucybeahere it’s true for this generation of voters. It might not have always been true.
When they realize the consequences of their inattention, that might change, but, of course, it’s too late already.
@Jvmguy @midacre @Dave_Goldsmith @lucybeahere
This election showed that people will not vote for genocide, even if nazis are the alternative, because they see no difference between them.
@Thebratdragon @Jvmguy @midacre @lucybeahere
Now that makes more sense to me.
@Dave_Goldsmith @Thebratdragon
Which is why I say deeply uninformed and emotional. Those who thought that the genocide couldn’t get worse were either lacking in imagination or education. It was truly an awful, painful choice, to be sure.
I think it's like the classic trolley problem: If you throw the lever one direction or the other genocide will occur. So you refuse to throw the lever-- in other words you refuse to partake in the experiment.
I can't fault someone for not voting for the lesser genocide. *I* voted for the lesser evil but I'm not proud of it.
We need a party and candidates that we can vote for with enthusiasm instead of always having to hold our noses with disgust.
I like the point. I couldn't criticise an American who voted Kamala. But the angry Dems insisting that everyone had to vote for her, despite the genocide, were as bad as Trump in their blindness to great evil. It is a deeply moral and fair position to say 'I just can't'.
That the alternatives are fascism or genocide is not the fault of the voter.
@JimmyB @Dave_Goldsmith @lucybeahere @Thebratdragon If more people refused to vote for anyone who supported genocide, there would be fewer leaders who support genocide. The problem with the logic of voting for the lesser evil is that there is no limit to how evil a person can be and still receive your support.
@gpilz @JimmyB @lucybeahere @Thebratdragon
True. Voting for the lesser evil got us to where we are today: a competition between a party for billionaires and a party for millionaires.
My issue isn't the voting for the lesser evil. OK - I don't do it really.
It's the berating the rest of us for not doing it. The insufferable demands from shouty Dems, and the insistence that those who refused to vote for the genocide were responsible for Trump... proper WTF
@JimmyB @Dave_Goldsmith @gpilz @Thebratdragon
Everyone likes to think that they are the reasonable ones being berated by those with other ideas. Don’t kid yourself. Everyone is on here talking bc we have strong feelings. Those who choose not to vote are included, trying to blame Dem voters for choosing the lesser of two evils. However, not voting doesn’t prevent someone from getting elected. But it just might end legitimate elections.
I can't speak for others but that's really the opposite of what I'm saying. I think it's fine to vote for the lesser evil. Well - it's understandable.
It's the condemning those who cannot stomach voting for genocide which galls me.
@JimmyB @Dave_Goldsmith @gpilz @Thebratdragon
Again, so unfortunate that so many can’t comprehend that things can indeed get worse for the Palestinians. In an ideal world we would not be faced with such awful choices. But here we are.
https://gazette.com/news/us-world/white-house-makes-2-000-pound-bombs-available-to-israel-undoing-bidens-pause/article_9755474b-330c-53b3-be12-22d07c4cd8a9.html
@lucybeahere @JimmyB @gpilz @Thebratdragon
I don't think this is about the inability to comprehend that there are gradations of evil in the world. I think this is at least in part the moral decision that some people take that they simply will not vote for ANY evil.
In other words sometimes the choices are so onerous they are impossible to make. If someone were to say "take this gun and kill one of your two children and if you don't kill one of them we will kill both", what would YOU do?
@Dave_Goldsmith @JimmyB @gpilz @Thebratdragon
I already made the terrible choice, as endless people have done before me when voting (or choosing not to). Someone is going to get elected, and whether we vote or not, we are responsible for that result. I don’t know of a president that doesn’t have blood on his hands, that was a “pure” choice. Bc even the blessed Jimmy Carter had that burden to bear, ie funding and arming Indonesia and the genocide of East Timor.
@lucybeahere @JimmyB @gpilz @Thebratdragon
I agree with you; Carter & E. Timor is a good example of your principal of imperfect leadership.
Where we differ is your contention that voting or not voting makes you equally responsible for the actions of the leader of your country, especially in the U.S. when the popular vote winner loses the election.
I don't beleive for a moment that the people who refused to vote in sham Russian elections, for example, are as responsible as Putin's supporters.
@Dave_Goldsmith @JimmyB @gpilz @Thebratdragon
Russian elections truly are a sham. No one else can be elected except Putin. Here, we had a choice. Voting and not voting actually did affect the result. Which is why many people are so passionate about it, and why there is voter suppression and election interference. If it didn’t matter, no one would bother. Democracy is so valued that people attempt to run for office in
Russia, even knowing they can’t win and it will likely get them killed.
@lucybeahere @JimmyB @gpilz @Thebratdragon
Yes here we have a choice. Usually it is a choice between two pro-capitalist, anti-environmentalists. I guess you think voting for the lesser of two evils is essential. I tend not to think that way and evidentally the majority of eligable voters agree with me. I think our elections are closer to Russian and Iranian on the "sham spectrum" than are the elections in true multi-party democracies like in Western Europe.
@Dave_Goldsmith
The majority of voters decided to vote. Because as we are already seeing, voting matters. It is not nearly as free and fair as it should be, but it’s not a sham. That’s why people are still voting, and putting up various ballot initiatives that also prove voting matters. States that have decriminalized marijuana and abortion, for a couple examples. Voting in the local elections as well. It’s so important. I can see why many get discouraged, but it all matters.
I believe the majority of eligible voters chose once again NOT to vote in 2024.
Yes, voting matters, just as your response or lack of response to ALL forms of coercion matters.
You think its wrong to abstain from voting because you think voting for the lesser evil is essential. Other people think acquiescing to any evil is immoral. I understand both perspectives and I don't tell people they are wrong either way they chose.
@lucybeahere
> The majority of voters decided to vote.
Trump picked up ¾ million more votes than what he had in 2020. Kamala lost ~10—11 million votes that previously went to Biden in 2020. Taking this math into account, 9+ million decided not to vote (which surprised me b/c voter reg surged when Kamala announced she was running).
The conversation here is fixated on Palestine. But it seems to be widely accepted that voters #1 issue was the economy. Kamala lost votes because people were not convinced that she would improve the price of eggs and oil (or whatever) over Biden.
Dems are lazy as fuck voters. But I am surprised that the threat of a Trump POTUS was not in itself intense motivation to vote. But it turns out selfishness prevailed and the *perception* that Trump would be better for jobs and inflation (the very same reason Hitler got elected… the nazi party was seen as being better for jobs).
@bojkotiMalbona This just illustrates how uninformed the sheep are or STUPID, more than willing to undermine every value the country was founded upon, placing their hopes on corruption for a ‘better’ outcome, apparently unaware or don’t care about the threat to their liberties. Or maybe a sizable number are racist little fucks and the appeal of a smooth talking flim flam robber was just so appealing. They loved cheering his hate. As a team the USA is failing. 😓
@bojkotiMalbona @lucybeahere @Dave_Goldsmith
Many of those votes were not lost through apathy, but through active suppression.
