Post by Nonilex - ourselves.space

ourselves.space

1d

#Boasberg again gets #DOJ to confirm that they are arguing that because he didn't include every word of that language in the written order, they could simply ignore what he said.

DOJ lawyer says that's what his client [#Trump] has instructed him to argue. Boasberg is incredulous & keeps pushing back.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg says "so when I said directly turn the plane around, you read it because my written order was pithier, this could be disregarded? That's a heck of a stretch."

#DOJ then basically says that's what they're arguing, then pivots to the international waters argument.

Boasberg explores the argument about being outside the US. He asks whether the DOJ is arguing that because the plane was outside US airspace, his order did not apply.

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#law #Constitution #Judiciary #AbuseOfPower #Trump

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1d

#DOJ says “no”, "removal" had already happened because they had already left US airspace.

#Boasberg says "the equitable power of the United States courts is not so limited," saying it's "pretty clear" that even if the enjoined acts were outside the territory of the US, you can't violate it.

"What argument do you have the equity stops at this country's borders"?

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#DOJ attorney begins saying the #law generally doesn't apply extraterritorially, and #Boasberg stops him, emphasizing that the question here is about his own equitable powers, not the Immigration and Nationality Act.

DOJ says the people had physically been removed so he no longer had jurisdiction.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg responds to that: "Isn't the response what you think is unconstitutional or improper or illegal injunction to seek modification or appeal?"

#DOJ says "when the planes are in the sky and there is sensitive national security, that's not a call that can be made."

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg says just return the planes then figure out the answer, rather than simply ignoring the order.

#DOJ then says that isn't what they're arguing & then shifts to their third argument, which is inherent presidential authority to move military forces.

/again, these were not #military flights!

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#DOJ is now arguing that this is a #ForeignPolicy issue & claims that the US would suffer if any TdA member weren't deported.

"I'm not calling into the question the government's foreign policy ... I'm just asking how you think my equitable powers do not attach to the plane ... ?"

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

Wow. #DOJ is arguing that #Trump has authority OUTSIDE the #AlienEnemiesAct in #InternationalWaters "that would not be subject to either orders."

#Boasberg seems skeptical at a minimum, & asks if the president's foreign power exists only once the plane crosses into international airspace?

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg asks "You're saying that the president somehow has extra powers over a plane once it enters international airspace once it leaves US airspace?"

#DOJ basically says yes, then starts repeating previous arguments.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg points out again that his equitable powers as a judge do not stop at the U.S. border lines or in international airspace.

He pauses & says this is a complex question & it would be better to be arguing them on the basis of the #facts, pointing out again #DOJ didn't give them the facts.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg then moves to Lee Gelernt of the #ACLU, asking him whether he wants to respond, & noting again that he doesn't plan to issue any rulings today about whether the order was violated.

Lee begins by pointing out the best way to deal with a #TRO they disagreed with was to obey & then appeal.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

Lee Gelernt says it's "implausible" that they didn't believe they were bound by what #Boasberg said in court, but even if they did, it was obvious that the only proper action was to go back to the court & seek clarification or turn the plane around & appeal.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg then asks the government about another issue; when was the Proclamation actually signed?

The #DOJ atty says that he does not have any information right now as to when the proclamation was signed, & Boasberg asks him to submit that information as well by noon tomorrow, & for the DOJ to provide an argument for when the proclamation went into effect.

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump #AlienEnemiesAct

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1d

#Boasberg then asks how many people are subject to the proclamation & how many people are currently in #ICE custody.

#DOJ says they don't have it. #ACLU also says they don't have it, & points out that the proclamation is vague enough that it's hard for anyone to figure out who is subject.

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#law #Constitution #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #immigration #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct #Trump

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1d

Lee then says they're going to argue that the government should be required to give anyone subject to the #AEA a hearing before finding that they're covered, & they'll be seeking that later.

#Boasberg orders #DOJ to say how many people are designated under AEA. DOJ says again they may refuse.

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#law #Constitution #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #immigration #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct #Trump

Edited 1d ago

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1d

#Boasberg with a sarcastic aside: "What I will hear from you by noon tomorrow — & I will memorialize in written form since apparently my oral orders don't carry much weight — is a written declaration" about the third flight & also the information he's previously ordered them to provide.

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#law #Constitution #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #immigration #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct #Trump

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1d

With that, the hearing is over. The govt will file more information tomorrow, & it may again refuse to provide specific the information #Boasberg requested (but must explain why). There is a further hearing on the #TRO on Fri, & action in the DC Circuit Court where briefing ends Wed.

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#law #Constitution #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #immigration #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct #Trump

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1d

#Boasberg did in fact mention #contempt as an aside earlier that I didn’t include.

Here’s the exact quote:

“Two more questions for Mr. Kambli (for the US govt) that don't relate to CONTEMPT / disobeying court orders. 1) Was Trump's Tren de Aragua proclamation signed in secret on Friday? Or on Saturday? Need to know timing & when US thinks it went into effect.”

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#law #Constitution #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct #Trump

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20h

Family members of Venezuelan migrants who suspect their loved ones were sent to El Salvador as part of a rapid US #deportation operation over the weekend are struggling to get more info as a legal battle plays out.

Advocates have launched a WhatsApp helpline for people searching for family members, while #immigration attorneys have tried to locate their clients after they went dark.

#law #Constitution #DueProcess #CivilRights #USpol #Trump #AbuseOfPower #AlienEnemiesAct
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/relatives-missing-venezuelan-migrants-desperate-answers-after-us-deportations-el-2025-03-17/

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6h

NEW. The #Trump admin files its notice w/ Judge #Boasberg, saying:

1. Everyone on the third plane had a final order of removal, so was not deported under the #AEA

2. The Proclamation was signed Friday but didn't go into effect until posted on the WH website

3. #ICE alleges there are 258 known #TdA members in the US

#law #Constitution #AlienEnemiesAct #immigration #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower

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6h

4. #Trump #DOJ says they will only give Judge #Boasberg answers on #compliance "through an in camera & ex parte declaration." (that is, they say will file a non-public declaration that he alone can see). They still give zero specific reasons other than handwaving at national security.

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower

The Court also ordered the Government to address the form in which it can provide further details about flights that left the United States before 7:25 PM. The Government maintains that there is no justification to order the provision of additional information, and that doing so would be inappropriate, because even accepting Plaintiffs’ account of the facts, there was no violation of the Court’s written order (since the relevant flights left U.S. airspace, and so their occupants were “removed,” before the order issued), and the Court’s earlier oral statements were not independently enforceable as injunctions. The Government stands on those arguments. Moreover, given that the Government’s motion for a stay remains pending before the D.C. Circuit, the Government should not be required to disclose sensitive information bearing on national security and foreign relations until that motion is resolved, especially given that this information is neither material nor timesensitive. If, however, the Court nevertheless orders the Government to provide additional details, the Court should do so through an in camera and ex parte declaration, in order to protect sensitive information bearing on foreign relations.

Edited 6h ago

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6h

Here's the government's notice:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436.28.0_1.pdf

And here's the accompanying declaration with the data:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436.28.1.pdf

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump

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6h

Essentially the #DOJ told Judge #Boasberg that it does not need to provide the Court with any additional info (despite being ordered to do so) b/c "there was no violation of the Court's *written* order (since the relevant flights left US airspace, & so their occupants were 'removed,' before the order issued)"

DOJ then said the Court's oral pronouncements prior to the written order being docketed "were not independently
enforceable as injunctions"

[this is bullshit]
#law #Judiciary #Trump

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6h

#DOJ also argued that b/c it filed for a stay before the appeals court, it "should not be required to disclose sensitive information bearing on national security & foreign relations until that motion is resolved, especially given that this information is neither material nor time-sensitive."

[Not time-sensitive? They were literally flying people out if the country as fast as they could to avoid complying with the court’s order]

#law #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #DueProcess #Judiciary #Trump

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6h

The #UnitedStates Govt Affidavit provides an explanation for the third flight leaving after #Boasberg’s orders:

"[A]ll individuals on that third plane had Title 8 final removal orders."

That means this flight complied with the order.

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump

On March 15, 2025, after the Proclamation was publicly posted and took effect, three planes carrying aliens departed the United States for El Salvador International Airport (SAL). Two of those planes departed U.S. territory and airspace before 7:25 PM EDT. The third plane departed after that time, but all individuals on that third plane had Title 8 final removal orders and thus were not removed solely on the basis of the Proclamation at issue. To avoid any doubt, no one on any flight departing the United States after 7:25 PM EDT on March 15, 2025, was removed solely on the basis of the Proclamation at issue, ICE carefully tracks the TdA

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6h

From the Sat night hearing:

#UnitedStates Govt attorney:

"Would this TRO apply to aliens that otherwise have final orders of removal, because from our perspective, that would be an independent basis to effectuate their removal?"
...
Judge #Boasberg: "That's fair. ... Yes, Mr. Ensign, I agree."

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump

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6h

There are still serious concerns about the prior two flights WITH *alleged* [w/o #DueProcess there’s no way to verify & family members & attorneys have said the allegations are false in many cases] #AlienEnemiesAct detainees onboard that continued despite the judge's order.

#law #Constitution #immigration #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump

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6h

They were not DEPORTED. Deported means sending them back to their country of origin. These people were sent to a maximum security #prison in #ElSalvador, without any #DueProcess or any analysis as to whether they feared harm there.

Flying a person to a third country that they may never have been to, directly into a prison where they are going to be forced to do hard labor, is not a #deportation; it's something else entirely.

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #CivilRights #Trump

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6h

Per Asha Rangappa:

Historical note: When President Lincoln *actually suspended* #HabeasCorpus under the Suspension Act of 1863, he was required to provide lists of all people detained who were not POWs to the circuit court. He complied. While prosecuting an *actual war*.

(Ex parte Milligan - https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/71/2%26nbsp)

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower #Trump

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6h

From Southpaw:

The #UnitedStates government under #Trump by all accounts is shipping these people into indefinite involuntary servitude in #ElSalvador without even the pretense of any #judicial process, much less duly convicting them of a #crime. It’s an enslaving operation.

It is #HumanTrafficking.

#law #Constitution #immigration #AlienEnemiesAct #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #AbuseOfPower

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3h

In response to the #DOJ's filing today in the #AlienEnemiesAct case, Judge #Boasberg ordered the #Trump admin to send him a sealed explanation of whether they in fact violated his court order.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69741724/jgg-v-trump/

#law #Constitution #immigration #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #Venezuela #CivilRights #ChecksAndBalances #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #CoEqualBranchesOfGovernment #ConstitutionalCrisis #AbuseOfPower #Trump

Here is the new minute entry in #JGGvTrump:

J.G.G. v. Trump (can president deport at will?): MINUTE ORDER: In response to Defendants' 28 Notice at page 2, the Court ORDERS that by 12:00 p.m. on March 19, 2025, Defendants shall file ex parte & under seal (or submit to the Court) a declaration providing the following details regarding each of the two flights leaving U.S. airspace before 7:25 p.m. on March 15, 2025: 1) What time did the plane take off from U.S. soil and from where? 2) What time did it leave U.S. airspace? 3) What time did it land in which foreign country (including if it made more than one stop)? 4) What time were individuals subject solely to the Proclamation transferred out of U.S. custody? and 5) How many people were aboard solely on the basis of the Proclamation? So ORDERED by Chief Judge James E. Boasberg on 3/18/2025. (lcjeb1)

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26m

This is some messed up dystopian stuff

Photos of the #Venezuelans illegally *deported* by #Trump under the #AlienEnemiesAct to the maximum security prison Terrorist Confinement Centre (#CECOT) in Tecoluca, #ElSalvador

Photos, released by the Presidencia El Salvador.

#law #Constitution #immigration #14thAmendment #5thAmendment #DueProcess #CivilRights #JudicialBranch #Judiciary #SeparationOfPowers #CoEqualBranchesOfGovernment #ConstitutionalCrisis #AbuseOfPower #HumanTrafficking #Slavery

Exterior of the Terrorist Confinement Centre (CECOT) in Tecoluca, El Salvador

Illegally detained Venezuelans being transferred overnight to the Terrorist Confinement Centre (CECOT)

Illegally detained Venezuelans being transferred overnight to the Terrorist Confinement Centre (CECOT)

Illegally detained Venezuelans being transferred overnight to the Terrorist Confinement Centre (CECOT)

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